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    Invelos Forums->DVD Profiler: Contribution Discussion Page: 1 2 3 4  Previous   Next
Bonus movie means box-set?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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are you guys seriously discussing if a film is a film?? that might be the funniest thing I've read all day. I'd really love to see how anyone tries to show that the B/W Ben Hur is not a film
- Jan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
are you guys seriously discussing if a film is a film?? that might be the funniest thing I've read all day. I'd really love to see how anyone tries to show that the B/W Ben Hur is not a film

I wasn't going to say anything but..... 
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
If Disney released something like an Uber-Alladin set that had the two direct to video releases on there as bonus features, they should be profiled.


it's available (well, OOP) in Germany
- Jan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorWinston Smith
Don't be discommodious
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 21,610
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Hydrox:

They have tried...trust me.

Skip
ASSUME NOTHING!!!!!!
CBE, MBE, MoA and proud of it.
Outta here

Billy Video
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantMark Harrison
I like IMDB
Registered: March 13, 2007
Reputation: Great Rating
United States Posts: 3,321
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Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
are you guys seriously discussing if a film is a film?? that might be the funniest thing I've read all day. I'd really love to see how anyone tries to show that the B/W Ben Hur is not a film


Yes, that seems to be what we're discussing.  Which of course is funny on the surface. 

But all joking aside, the real question I think is what should qualify for getting it's own profile in the database.  In that context, "what qualifies as a film", while very badly worded, makes a little more sense.
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
John,

How you keep coming back with this "packaging" argument is beyond me. You have lost this argument (if you can call it that) now, for the third time and you're just repeating yourself.

You still haven't justified how you consider it as being marketed as bonus material. Is it because the 1925 film is on disc 3 instead of discs 1 & 2? You should keep in mind that the 1959 version is too long to put on one disc. I don't see where it calls the 1925 version "Bonus Material" anywhere on the package. As a matter of fact, disc 4 is titled "About the Movies". Notice the plural reference without preference to either of the two films in the set. You will see, if you take the time to look, that the credits for both films are included on the back cover. You will also find that both films are mentioned in the video formats. Wow, they are both mentioned in the copyright too. I find it strange that the documentaries are not listed here. Both films are listed in the ratings as well. Again, no mention of the documentaries.

Now, as far as graphics on the cover are concerned, I'll grant that there are no images from the 1925 version. Then again, we're talking commercialism here and what better way to promote the set than to use a stylized reprint of the highly successful 1959 one-sheet for the films release to theatres? Wonderful and effective image (not to mention familiar).

Hmmm, let's open the package and see if we find anything inside which supports your assertions.
Nope, not there either. We see a repeat of the credits for both films again. We also see chapter menus for each film and the documentaries.

Sorry John, I just don't find anything which supports your opinion. To the contrary, this is packaged just like any other Digipak set. Since both films have the same basic title, there really is no reason to list it twice. What would you have them do, call it the Ben-Hur Ben-Hur Collection?


Just for kicks, here is an image of the 1959 one-sheet.


Here is the front cover


edited to remove an unnecessary comment


It's really simple, Dan.  The DVD maker put out a fancy edition of the 1959 Charleton Heston version of Ben Hur.  Clear as day right on the front cover.  Then, they decided to really give the fans a treat and include the 1925 version AS A BONUS.  I remember seeing it advertised that way in Walmart.  Bonus material is just that - BONUS material.  What it is and how long it is, is completely irrelevant.  If you look up that title in the wholesalers catalogue you'll find Ben Hur 1959 Ultimate Edition or somesuch, NOT Ben Hur 1925.  What's so hard to understand about that?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributorhydr0x
Registered: April 4, 2007
Germany Posts: 879
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Quoting Mark Harrison:
Quote:
Quoting hydr0x:
Quote:
are you guys seriously discussing if a film is a film?? that might be the funniest thing I've read all day. I'd really love to see how anyone tries to show that the B/W Ben Hur is not a film


Yes, that seems to be what we're discussing.  Which of course is funny on the surface. 

But all joking aside, the real question I think is what should qualify for getting it's own profile in the database.  In that context, "what qualifies as a film", while very badly worded, makes a little more sense.


That makes more sense, but there's nothing to discuss here. The rules clearly state what is needed for seperate profiles: multiple films. There can not be any arguing here.

Of course you're free to discuss a rule change proposal, but i doubt you'll get far.

1) the majority does seem to want them
2) ken does seem to want them (his current rules)
3) i can't see why Ken would disallow the Ben-Hur style subprofiles, they do not mess up the parent profile (so: no one gets hurt) and the database doesn't really suffer from them either

nr 3) makes me wonder why anyone could be against them? just use the parents and be happy if you don't want the childs
- Jan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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We have been using this modified box set way of profiling a number of movies that come as part of a bonus to the feature being sold.  This was a compromise to those who didn't want the an empty parent and two children.
Are you local?
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DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Just as I expected from you, John, not one bit of substance in your reply. You call it a "bonus" but you can't tell why you do or what you base that assumption on. You mention some marketing from Wal-Mart but can't quote it. You even choose to presume that the 1925 version was an afterthought for the release. Where do you get this stuff from, your little toe?

BTW - it's marketed as "Ben-Hur: 4-Disc Collector's Edition".

Even if the 1925 version is a "bonus" in this set, what difference does it make? Why do you insist on not having a profile for it and what makes you so unreasonable as to insist that others shouldn't?

Get real and show me something or be quiet.
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar Contributornorthbloke
Registered: March 15, 2007
Reputation: High Rating
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
We have been using this modified box set way of profiling a number of movies that come as part of a bonus to the feature being sold.  This was a compromise to those who didn't want the an empty parent and two children.


I think this sort of thing should be added to the rules, to let people know that there are compromises in place, and that in certain circumstances the rules can be circumvented.
We can't rely on forum discussion threads to point us in the right direction, especially discussions from Intervocative. I'm sure there are new users using this program every day, and to expect them to know these things is unreasonable.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
We have been using this modified box set way of profiling a number of movies that come as part of a bonus to the feature being sold.  This was a compromise to those who didn't want the an empty parent and two children.


John,

This brings up another point. Those who want these profiles are willing to compromise even though we are in the majority. Should we take the stance you few are taking? Should we let the majority rule and disallow what you want?

I fail to understand the dogmatic and unreasonable thinking possessed by those of you who don't want these profiles.

"It's bonus material and noting more." I mean, really! How closed minded can you be?

Next time one of these things come up, perhaps we should all behave like you and shut you down?
Dan
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorTracer
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 951
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Quoting northbloke:
Quote:
Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
We have been using this modified box set way of profiling a number of movies that come as part of a bonus to the feature being sold.  This was a compromise to those who didn't want the an empty parent and two children.


I think this sort of thing should be added to the rules, to let people know that there are compromises in place, and that in certain circumstances the rules can be circumvented.
We can't rely on forum discussion threads to point us in the right direction, especially discussions from Intervocative. I'm sure there are new users using this program every day, and to expect them to know these things is unreasonable.


No one felt that rules were really needed since, the parent would be just like any other profile.  There would be a profile for the bonus feature "movie" and users could add it the parent if they wanted or not.

We tried to come up with a rule once, I'll see if I can find it and post it to the rules committee.
Are you local?
This is a local shop the strangers you would bring would not understand us, our customs, our local ways.
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantRifter
Reg. Jan 27, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
United States Posts: 2,694
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Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
We have been using this modified box set way of profiling a number of movies that come as part of a bonus to the feature being sold.  This was a compromise to those who didn't want the an empty parent and two children.


John,

This brings up another point. Those who want these profiles are willing to compromise even though we are in the majority. Should we take the stance you few are taking? Should we let the majority rule and disallow what you want?

I fail to understand the dogmatic and unreasonable thinking possessed by those of you who don't want these profiles.

"It's bonus material and noting more." I mean, really! How closed minded can you be?

Next time one of these things come up, perhaps we should all behave like you and shut you down?



I'm not being any more dogmatic or unreasonable than those who want this stuff.  This all started out when somebody wanted to make it a box set when it clearly isn't.  That didn't work, so they come back with this other method.  I just don't understand this compulsive need to profile everything.  Reminds me of the military where they tell you if it moves salute it, and it it don't, paint it.

I also don't understand the rationale that just because something in the bonus material is a movie, there is this compulsion to profile it.

But, that's fine.  You guys want to do that, go for it.  I think all it does is confuse things.  I still have the right to express myself on the subject, or is that not the case anymore?
John

"Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice!" Senator Barry Goldwater, 1964
Make America Great Again!
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantDan W
Registered: May 9, 2002
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 980
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
Quoting Dan W:
Quote:
Quoting Tracer:
Quote:
We have been using this modified box set way of profiling a number of movies that come as part of a bonus to the feature being sold.  This was a compromise to those who didn't want the an empty parent and two children.


John,

This brings up another point. Those who want these profiles are willing to compromise even though we are in the majority. Should we take the stance you few are taking? Should we let the majority rule and disallow what you want?

I fail to understand the dogmatic and unreasonable thinking possessed by those of you who don't want these profiles.

"It's bonus material and noting more." I mean, really! How closed minded can you be?

Next time one of these things come up, perhaps we should all behave like you and shut you down?



I'm not being any more dogmatic or unreasonable than those who want this stuff.  This all started out when somebody wanted to make it a box set when it clearly isn't.  That didn't work, so they come back with this other method.  I just don't understand this compulsive need to profile everything.  Reminds me of the military where they tell you if it moves salute it, and it it don't, paint it.

I also don't understand the rationale that just because something in the bonus material is a movie, there is this compulsion to profile it.

But, that's fine.  You guys want to do that, go for it.  I think all it does is confuse things.  I still have the right to express myself on the subject, or is that not the case anymore?




Voice your opinion all you like. It's the fact that you tell everyone else they shouldn't have it that bothers me. And yes, that make you much more dogmatic and unreasonable than those who have arranged it so you don't have to have it that way in your collection.
Dan
 Last edited: by Dan W
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorKulju
Registered: March 14, 2007
Finland Posts: 2,337
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Quoting Rifter:
Quote:
I also don't understand the rationale that just because something in the bonus material is a movie, there is this compulsion to profile it.


Again we have to explain you more than once, but I try again with very simple example.

There are many movies which collectors like to have, but only the way they released is as a Bonus feature on some other film with totally different name (Hitchcock's Mary for example).

Now we have no means to find them from the db if they are not profiled separately. I think that the DVDprofiler is a great tool for collectors, but it would raise it up to a new level if we could use it as a tool to find these "non-released" films. Got it?
DVD Profiler Unlimited RegistrantStar ContributorRHo
Registered: March 13, 2007
Posts: 2,759
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Quoting Kulju:
Quote:
Now we have no means to find them from the db if they are not profiled separately. I think that the DVDprofiler is a great tool for collectors, but it would raise it up to a new level if we could use it as a tool to find these "non-released" films. Got it?

You can find them. They do have their own profile. But understand that not everybody wants to profile "bonus" films as box sets. That's why the Ben-Hur compromise has been developed in the IVS forum. It serves both camps as a starting point. You can just use the main profile or it can easily be turned into a real box set or you could of course have it in your collection as the compromise type.
 Last edited: by RHo
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